Posts by Juan Viejo2

Started studying at age 7 in 1951, going to meetings at 8, ministry school at 9, International Convention in NY in 1953, vacation pioneered at 11, 12, 13, and 14. Went to International Convention in NY in 1958. Vacation pioneered in 1959. Gave first public talk at 15 1/2. Started dating a Catholic girl at 17. Married at the KH in 1962. Wife baptized JW in fall 1962. Gave public talks all over circuit in 1963. Started to fade in 1965. DF'd in 1966. Wife was in until 1973, but I was a DF'd husband during that time. Because of 1975, wife pressured me in 1969 to go back or she'd leave me. She left me in 1971. She quit the JWs in 1976 and went back to being Catholic. I've only been in KHs for the funerals of my parents in 1985 and 2006, and for my step-mother in 1988.

Started becoming active in the ex-JW educational movement in 1998. Now edit and webmaster www.ex-jw.com.

I guess that means I'm an "outie" - not an "innie"!

14 years in and 45 out. Thank God for Ray Franz!!!

211

Ray Franz has had a stroke

by coffee_black in

jw
friends

just setting the record straight.

there is another thread that notes a claim on wiki that said that ray has died.. he had a stroke yesterday, and is in the hospital.

he is still alive.

Juan Viejo2

I will be putting up a proper tribute page to Mr. Franz on www.Ex-JW.com when appropriate. I welcome anyone here to contribute their own personal testimonies about their connection to Ray and his books. I'll be happy to publish any that you'd like to offer. Articles also allow for comments, so feel free to visit and add your own.

If Michael Jackson could have an article on Ex-JW.com, Ray Franz most certainly deserves one!

But let's not rush things. I'll do it when the time is right...

211

Ray Franz has had a stroke

by coffee_black in

jw
friends

just setting the record straight.

there is another thread that notes a claim on wiki that said that ray has died.. he had a stroke yesterday, and is in the hospital.

he is still alive.

Juan Viejo2

Coffee (and any others) -

I briefly came across a mailing address for Cynthia while perusing the various forums, but it seems to have disappeared at some point. Perhaps someone here that has contact with Mrs. Franz, or with some of their close friends in the area, could make contact and find out what she might need in the way of funds or other assistance. She needs to know that many of us here are willing to contribute toward her immediate needs.

I have no idea what their living arrangments might be now. I suspect that they derive some income from royalties from Ray's books, but so many years after they were published that might not be enough to sustain them. I doubt that they had much, or anything, from Social Security since they spent most of their working years living under a vow of poverty.

Bottom line is that we should not pry into their personal financial affairs, but just be aware that they may have some special needs if Ray makes it back home - or doesn't. I'm sure that many of us would be willing to pitch in and help them a bit.

So - can you help get this information for us and get the word to Mrs. Franz that we really care for them both?

Thanks!

26

Real Peace and Security-When? Outline !!!

by yknot in

a wonderful darling man was so kind as to anonymously pm this to be shared with the board...... consider it 'food at the proper time'.

kudos for anony-brother.

for actual outline.... http://www.sendspace.com/file/o58i6h.

Juan Viejo2

The public talks were an hour when I gave them back in the 1960's.

Call to order and introduction: 3 minutes
Public Talk: 55 minutes
Conclusion: 2 minutes - announcement of next week's talk, WT study to start in 30 minutes (1 hour WT study)

Total wasted time stolen from my life (including travel time and misc. BS with the other JWs before and after): nearly 3 hours.

The dead time between meetings was eventually reduced to 15 minutes because there were so few real members of the "public" that ever attended. The original purpose of the 30 minute breaks time between meetings was to allow new ones on their first or second visits to the hall to be introduced to all of the servants and more popular brothers and sisters - a little "love bombing" time.

The local congregation could move the WT study along a bit and reduce it to 45-50 minutes as long as all the paragraphs were covered. But when that happened, they would call on Brother Wysocki, one of the last of the remnant anointed in that KH and a Polish survivor of WW2, to pray.

Brother Wysocki only got his invitation to pray about once every two months, so he made the best of it. Praying in a mix of broken English and Polish, he would cough and wheeze and repeat himself several times during his 8-10 minute closing prayer. We would always stand for the final prayer, so all of the mothers would have to try to keep their kids in line or hold their babies that whole time. The longer he went on the more babies would cry. Their mothers would use that excuse to make a hasty retreat out the back of the KH or into the ladies' room - a perfect excuse for an escape.

Do I miss those days? Not on your life! RIP, Brother Wysocki - I hope you are enjoying your eternal life in heaven sitting at Jesus' (or is it Jehovah's) right hand and ruling with him.

48

HELP! Future soldier looking to join!

by megawatt in

here's my situation.

i scored pretty well in the asvab and now have my pickings of the available mos in the army reserves.

pretty sure i'm shoe in, except for a minor detail.

Juan Viejo2

Remember one soldier that served his country in a most auspicious way, as Supreme Commander European Allied Forces, Dwight D. Eisenhower. He also served as NATO commander after WW2.

He was raised by a mother who was a member of the Bible Students during Pastor Russell's time. My understanding is that his mother and father were both pacifists, but the Watchtower in those days actually encouraged young men to fight for their country. I was when Rutherford took over that conscientious objection became the directive and the norm for JWs.

So Eisenhower is a good example of someone who was raised in a Watchtower household, but followed his own path and went on to make a difference in history and our country's future.

Don't make your decision on anything you may or may not have committed to as a child JW. If you were under 18 nothing you agreed to is binding under law, and in most states it is 21. So if you want to go fight the muslim hordes and the North Koreans, then follow your own conscience. Plus in today's environment, a military career can be a pretty secure and relatively safe life. It's a lot safer than being a night clerk at 7-11 or a Border Patrol officer in Texas.

81

An Elder wrote anomously...

by Butterflyleia85 in

jw
friends

i realize as an elder that i am speaking out against the very organization i try to faithfully represent, but i personally think that the governing body is wrong by teaching that only what they teach us, as printed in the watchtower publications, should be considered to be the truth.

theyve made the expression of any personal opinions or group debates over their official versions of biblical truths subject to disciplinary action often leading to someone being disfellowshipped.. .

that is why i feel that i must keep my own identity somewhat anonymous.

Juan Viejo2

Ouch! That-hurts...

81

An Elder wrote anomously...

by Butterflyleia85 in

jw
friends

i realize as an elder that i am speaking out against the very organization i try to faithfully represent, but i personally think that the governing body is wrong by teaching that only what they teach us, as printed in the watchtower publications, should be considered to be the truth.

theyve made the expression of any personal opinions or group debates over their official versions of biblical truths subject to disciplinary action often leading to someone being disfellowshipped.. .

that is why i feel that i must keep my own identity somewhat anonymous.

Juan Viejo2

ATJeff,

I think he's made it clear that at some point he will break from the JWs - unless the Governing Body makes a major change in the way it treats the Witnesses and their families. For personal reasons, he has decided to stick it out for now, maybe for the good of his family, or possibly to keep his own life stable and under control. It's like having to go to work at a job you really hate, but not having a viable alternative. You just do it until you can't handle it any longer or the boss dies.

Although my initial reaction was similar to yours, that he was being too critical of the unwashed and uneducated among the exes and current JWs, I do think some of his points are very valid. Take a trip over to Ex-JW.com and read some of the comments on articles about Michael Jackson, JW assemblies, and JW raised children, and you will see that a lot of the comments, especially by the apologists, are very poorly written and make JWs sound like 4th graders in a Southern Baptist Christian Day School in Birmingham. I am often tempted as the editor and webmaster for that site to jump in and clean up some of the errors in those comments, but I don't; I let them stand on their own feet. I make enough errors on my own, even with a style manual sitting on my desk, that I don't have the time to correct everyone else's errors.

Shadow's comments, in my humble opinion, were simply trying to say to those who feel that they must stand up for the Witness position - that they should do it in a way that honors Jehovah. Likewise, he was also saying to the "apostates" - if you are trying to reach those JWs who stumble across your website or video with a message that they are wrong or trapped in a cult, don't stumble those visitors by coming off as some street hood or dope dealer. On those points, if that is truly what Shadow was trying to say, I would have to agree with him.

In any case, I am very pleased that his article on Ex-JW.com generated as much interest as it did and drew so many comments. I don't know if Shadow is a member of any of the prominent ex-JW forums, but my guess is that he might check in from time to time when his wife isn't looking over his shoulder.

-----

Shadow: If you are reading this, please feel to respond here or back at Ex-JW.com and let me know what you think. Let me know when you are ready to submit another article. You might have a few critics, but I think your message got through and you have a fair amount of support.

"Old John"

81

An Elder wrote anomously...

by Butterflyleia85 in

jw
friends

i realize as an elder that i am speaking out against the very organization i try to faithfully represent, but i personally think that the governing body is wrong by teaching that only what they teach us, as printed in the watchtower publications, should be considered to be the truth.

theyve made the expression of any personal opinions or group debates over their official versions of biblical truths subject to disciplinary action often leading to someone being disfellowshipped.. .

that is why i feel that i must keep my own identity somewhat anonymous.

Juan Viejo2

I'm not sure what happened on the first save. For some reason the editor stripped out all of the spaces on the first few paragraphs. Hopefully, my edit caught the worst of the mess.

81

An Elder wrote anomously...

by Butterflyleia85 in

jw
friends

i realize as an elder that i am speaking out against the very organization i try to faithfully represent, but i personally think that the governing body is wrong by teaching that only what they teach us, as printed in the watchtower publications, should be considered to be the truth.

theyve made the expression of any personal opinions or group debates over their official versions of biblical truths subject to disciplinary action often leading to someone being disfellowshipped.. .

that is why i feel that i must keep my own identity somewhat anonymous.

Juan Viejo2

I am the editor and webmaster of www.ex-jw.com . I posted the aforementioned article that was copied here for all of you to hopefully enjoy. There have been comments, pro and con, suspicious and supporting, about "Shadow Elder" and this article, since its publication back on August 2, 2009. I'd like to clear up a few misconceptions and give everyone some additional background.

I first heard from "Shadow Elder" last June. He sent a private e mail to the contact email for the website to let me know that he was out there and wanted to submit something for publication. He'd read my article, "The Truth About JW Bible Studies," and commented on my take on the Witnesses. He complimented me on my writing style and the subjects I'd c hosen. He expressed his opinion that my writing seemed to lack the anger that posts by other critics, especially ex-JWs, seemed to have. In his letter, he asked if I would be willing to post an article of his that he had started some time ago, but he'd been afraid to submit f or fear his r eal identity would be revealed – and potentially screwing up his life.

I agreed on one condition: He would give me a way to verify that he was a JW , and that he was an elder. I won't tell you how he did that, for fear of revealing his identity, but I can assure you that I was able to confirm that this fellow was in f act an elder in a Kingdom Hall within a 30- mile radius of New York City.

He asked if I had any problem with what subject he might choose to write about and to describe my submission guidelines. I told him to submit his article to me as an unsigned attachment using a blind @gmail.com address. I would respond with questions I had and then follow-u p w ith an edited version (for spelling, grammar, and readability) back to him. He agreed. I received his original draft in late July and published it in its present form on August 2. I have to say that I did not have to do a lot of editing on his submission before publishing it.

Several forum comments mentioned that he sounded like a "troll" - maybe an ex-JW pretending to be a current elder. I can assure everyone that to the best of my ability, I've checked him out, and he seems to be genuine. I live in Oregon, so meeting him personally would be difficult for me.

Other forum posters mentioned his negative remarks about poor spelling and grammar by ex and current JWs who comment on articles, posts and forums. This was the part of his submission that I was a little concerned about, afraid that he would alienate the readers he was trying to reach.

He wrote back to me: "Remember that I am still a Jehovah's Witness in good standing. How do you think I feel when I see someone who claims to be a Jehovah's Witness write a comment that is illiterate, unintelligible, full of obscenities (I bet Jehovah appreciates being represented that way!), and often wrong? Likewise, with ex-JWs: Some try to take a calm, informative, and almost loving approach toward the Jehovah's Witnesses. They feel that educating JWs will allow them to see the truth for themselves and make their personal decision to stay or leave based on accurate knowledge. Other "exes" are hateful in their approach, making fun of Jehovah's Witnesses at every level. They present themselves as drugged out rock stars, so cool, so "with it," so far ahead of everyone else. I think they are worse than the Governing Body in their abusive treatment of people who really are trying to serve God. I say let my comments stand - I'll take my chances that those that agree with me will see that my points are valid. I also accept the reality that my article will get a lot of criticism from both sides. I can live with that."

There you are. I invented the pseudonym "Shadow Elder" to describe him. He emailed me back with the comment: "If I ever decide to leave the JWs and write a book about my experiences, I might just use that name as the title of my book - assuming you don't have a copyright to it. However, that possibility is still a long way off. I have too many friends and family in the “Truth” at this moment, and I am not ready to give them up - yet. I know that makes me a hypocrite, but that is my situation at this point."

I hope this clears up some confusion and answers questions you might have about the legitimacy of this fellow. If you have questions about the article or want to try to contact "Shadow" - email me at [email protected] . I'll forward your emails to the blind address he's given me, but I cannot guarantee that he will read or answer them.

"Old John"